Basic sculling technique

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

Charles Carroll

2023-07-07 02:51:00 UTC

Hi Carl & James,

Have you seen US Rowing's video on ideal sculling technique?

https://www.google.com/search?q=videos+of+ideal+scullimg+technique&rlz=1CAKDZI_enUS1057&oq=videos+of+ideal+scullimg+technique&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i64.9811394j1j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:501df82b,vid:RO0kN5JNa9w,st:398

Love to know what you think,
Charles

James HS

2023-07-09 08:57:55 UTC

Permalink

Post by Charles Carroll
Hi Carl & James,
Have you seen US Rowing's video on ideal sculling technique?
https://www.google.com/search?q=videos+of+ideal+scullimg+technique&rlz=1CAKDZI_enUS1057&oq=videos+of+ideal+scullimg+technique&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i64.9811394j1j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:501df82b,vid:RO0kN5JNa9w,st:398
Love to know what you think,
Charles

I'm afraid I think it is horrible - and the commentator is clearly not looking at the video - the blades do not go in as the athlete is moving forward (which I think is old paradigm anyway) - they do not talk about blade depth at that point.

The emphasise no arm bend - but not why, and some of us are not too worried about arm bend, (and particularly while I am getting scullers used to a pec squeeze)

Then they talk about the body being suspended on the blades - but no pressure on the footplate or bend in the blades has yet been created?

Power transferring from the legs to the blades - what does that mean!

Then a horrible section where they talk about the blades 'approaching perpendicular' whereas the picture shows now where near - the knees are only just over 90 and the blades look at about -40 or more, and then they make the fatal perpendicular which is the most "mechanically efficient part of the stroke" - I wish they defined more of what that meant, but NO :)

Last 1/4 of the slide on a picture of half slide, and a body suspended in the upright position (how?)

Good connection on the face of the blade - at least they don't say which face, but I fear it sounds like they are pushing water at this stage :))

He says pushing on the blades and plates "creates" a tall body position - I think it is probably as a result of a good body position?

The blades rebound out of the water and head towards the bow? What? - really, what? no feathering? - rebound from what?

Drive happens by itself, swing, swing squeeze of the arms - what? - how do you squeeze the arms, where are the flat wrist, where are you pulling through to?

Technique stuff - then describes some of the basic elements, but says in front of a picture, the forearms are horizontal and the wrists are flat - well, the wrists are flat, but the forearms clearly off horizontal :)

His description of squaring must be watching someone else's video? (they square just before front stops)

So I guess as an intro - hmm, not sure, the contradicting of the script and pictures is a hard one to swallow!!

Hope I'm not being too harsh!

What are your thoughts?

James

carl

2023-07-11 13:51:19 UTC

Permalink

Post by James HS

I'm afraid I think it is horrible - and the commentator is clearly not looking at the video - the blades do not go in as the athlete is moving forward (which I think is old paradigm anyway) - they do not talk about blade depth at that point.
The emphasise no arm bend - but not why, and some of us are not too worried about arm bend, (and particularly while I am getting scullers used to a pec squeeze)
Then they talk about the body being suspended on the blades - but no pressure on the footplate or bend in the blades has yet been created?
Power transferring from the legs to the blades - what does that mean!
Then a horrible section where they talk about the blades 'approaching perpendicular' whereas the picture shows now where near - the knees are only just over 90 and the blades look at about -40 or more, and then they make the fatal perpendicular which is the most "mechanically efficient part of the stroke" - I wish they defined more of what that meant, but NO :)
Last 1/4 of the slide on a picture of half slide, and a body suspended in the upright position (how?)
Good connection on the face of the blade - at least they don't say which face, but I fear it sounds like they are pushing water at this stage :))
He says pushing on the blades and plates "creates" a tall body position - I think it is probably as a result of a good body position?
The blades rebound out of the water and head towards the bow? What? - really, what? no feathering? - rebound from what?
Drive happens by itself, swing, swing squeeze of the arms - what? - how do you squeeze the arms, where are the flat wrist, where are you pulling through to?
Technique stuff - then describes some of the basic elements, but says in front of a picture, the forearms are horizontal and the wrists are flat - well, the wrists are flat, but the forearms clearly off horizontal :)
His description of squaring must be watching someone else's video? (they square just before front stops)
So I guess as an intro - hmm, not sure, the contradicting of the script and pictures is a hard one to swallow!!
Hope I'm not being too harsh!
What are your thoughts?
James

--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ***@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
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James HS

2023-07-12 23:12:08 UTC

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Post by carl

Post by James HS

I'm afraid I think it is horrible - and the commentator is clearly not looking at the video - the blades do not go in as the athlete is moving forward (which I think is old paradigm anyway) - they do not talk about blade depth at that point.
The emphasise no arm bend - but not why, and some of us are not too worried about arm bend, (and particularly while I am getting scullers used to a pec squeeze)
Then they talk about the body being suspended on the blades - but no pressure on the footplate or bend in the blades has yet been created?
Power transferring from the legs to the blades - what does that mean!
Then a horrible section where they talk about the blades 'approaching perpendicular' whereas the picture shows now where near - the knees are only just over 90 and the blades look at about -40 or more, and then they make the fatal perpendicular which is the most "mechanically efficient part of the stroke" - I wish they defined more of what that meant, but NO :)
Last 1/4 of the slide on a picture of half slide, and a body suspended in the upright position (how?)
Good connection on the face of the blade - at least they don't say which face, but I fear it sounds like they are pushing water at this stage :))
He says pushing on the blades and plates "creates" a tall body position - I think it is probably as a result of a good body position?
The blades rebound out of the water and head towards the bow? What? - really, what? no feathering? - rebound from what?
Drive happens by itself, swing, swing squeeze of the arms - what? - how do you squeeze the arms, where are the flat wrist, where are you pulling through to?
Technique stuff - then describes some of the basic elements, but says in front of a picture, the forearms are horizontal and the wrists are flat - well, the wrists are flat, but the forearms clearly off horizontal :)
His description of squaring must be watching someone else's video? (they square just before front stops)
So I guess as an intro - hmm, not sure, the contradicting of the script and pictures is a hard one to swallow!!
Hope I'm not being too harsh!
What are your thoughts?
James

James - that to which you so rightly object is based on the exhortatory
gibberish and unquestioning group-think that is spouted from launches &
towpaths worldwide &, sadly, from some paid coaches working within NGBs.
I know 2 very intelligent people who each quit coaching courses for
which they'd paid good money as they were not prepared to regurgitate
arrant nonsense just to earn that qualification.
Cheers -
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf

I am not an intelligent person - but quit my BR Level 3 Club Coach for similar reasons :) (Shhhh)

carl

2023-07-13 14:51:21 UTC

I'm afraid I think it is horrible - and the commentator is clearly not looking at the video - the blades do not go in as the athlete is moving forward (which I think is old paradigm anyway) - they do not talk about blade depth at that point.
The emphasise no arm bend - but not why, and some of us are not too worried about arm bend, (and particularly while I am getting scullers used to a pec squeeze)
Then they talk about the body being suspended on the blades - but no pressure on the footplate or bend in the blades has yet been created?
Power transferring from the legs to the blades - what does that mean!
Then a horrible section where they talk about the blades 'approaching perpendicular' whereas the picture shows now where near - the knees are only just over 90 and the blades look at about -40 or more, and then they make the fatal perpendicular which is the most "mechanically efficient part of the stroke" - I wish they defined more of what that meant, but NO :)
Last 1/4 of the slide on a picture of half slide, and a body suspended in the upright position (how?)
Good connection on the face of the blade - at least they don't say which face, but I fear it sounds like they are pushing water at this stage :))
He says pushing on the blades and plates "creates" a tall body position - I think it is probably as a result of a good body position?
The blades rebound out of the water and head towards the bow? What? - really, what? no feathering? - rebound from what?
Drive happens by itself, swing, swing squeeze of the arms - what? - how do you squeeze the arms, where are the flat wrist, where are you pulling through to?
Technique stuff - then describes some of the basic elements, but says in front of a picture, the forearms are horizontal and the wrists are flat - well, the wrists are flat, but the forearms clearly off horizontal :)
His description of squaring must be watching someone else's video? (they square just before front stops)
So I guess as an intro - hmm, not sure, the contradicting of the script and pictures is a hard one to swallow!!
Hope I'm not being too harsh!
What are your thoughts?
James

I am not an intelligent person - but quit my BR Level 3 Club Coach for similar reasons :) (Shhhh)

BRAVO, James!! (And you have just disproved your introductory clause).

Carl

Charles Carroll

2023-07-13 18:20:23 UTC

Permalink

Dear James,

I have been logging on to RSR for 25 years and have had the pleasure of reading many posts from you. For the first time, however, I must vehemently disagree with what you have written. I cannot concur with your statement that you are “not an intelligent person.” I can find nothing in your posts that could possibly evince such nonsense. Your posts always show that you are guided by curiosity, honest and imaginative in the questions you ask, averse to contentious disputes, and most importantly that you are eager to learn. No, my friend. You are indeed an intelligent person.

Warmest regards,
Charles

James HS

2023-07-15 13:10:08 UTC

Permalink

Post by Charles Carroll
Dear James,
I have been logging on to RSR for 25 years and have had the pleasure of reading many posts from you. For the first time, however, I must vehemently disagree with what you have written. I cannot concur with your statement that you are “not an intelligent person.” I can find nothing in your posts that could possibly evince such nonsense. Your posts always show that you are guided by curiosity, honest and imaginative in the questions you ask, averse to contentious disputes, and most importantly that you are eager to learn. No, my friend. You are indeed an intelligent person.
Warmest regards,
Charles

Charles

You are very sweet - I use the definition here "having good understanding or a high mental capacity; quick to comprehend, as persons or animals"

Not to be disparaging of myself - but my understanding is that of a "speed reader" (wide attention span) and I can be a bit "slow" to grasp :))

But I am a tryer :)

Always good to have your comments :)

James

Marco Stefano

2023-09-30 17:09:48 UTC

Permalink

I also have refused to do more than BR Instructor's Award (some 17 years ago, now Level 2) for similar reasons. I cannot fathom how other coaches in my club watch the same videos or rowing & sculling in real time as I do and then spout similar guff, while apparently ignoring the information entering their own eyes. It's bizarre.

From US Rowing it's all the more bizarre as they produced many good free lockdown webinars (polarised / pyramidal training, S&C, etc.).

carl

2023-07-11 13:51:56 UTC

Permalink

Post by James HS

I'm afraid I think it is horrible - and the commentator is clearly not looking at the video - the blades do not go in as the athlete is moving forward (which I think is old paradigm anyway) - they do not talk about blade depth at that point.
The emphasise no arm bend - but not why, and some of us are not too worried about arm bend, (and particularly while I am getting scullers used to a pec squeeze)
Then they talk about the body being suspended on the blades - but no pressure on the footplate or bend in the blades has yet been created?
Power transferring from the legs to the blades - what does that mean!
Then a horrible section where they talk about the blades 'approaching perpendicular' whereas the picture shows now where near - the knees are only just over 90 and the blades look at about -40 or more, and then they make the fatal perpendicular which is the most "mechanically efficient part of the stroke" - I wish they defined more of what that meant, but NO :)
Last 1/4 of the slide on a picture of half slide, and a body suspended in the upright position (how?)
Good connection on the face of the blade - at least they don't say which face, but I fear it sounds like they are pushing water at this stage :))
He says pushing on the blades and plates "creates" a tall body position - I think it is probably as a result of a good body position?
The blades rebound out of the water and head towards the bow? What? - really, what? no feathering? - rebound from what?
Drive happens by itself, swing, swing squeeze of the arms - what? - how do you squeeze the arms, where are the flat wrist, where are you pulling through to?
Technique stuff - then describes some of the basic elements, but says in front of a picture, the forearms are horizontal and the wrists are flat - well, the wrists are flat, but the forearms clearly off horizontal :)
His description of squaring must be watching someone else's video? (they square just before front stops)
So I guess as an intro - hmm, not sure, the contradicting of the script and pictures is a hard one to swallow!!
Hope I'm not being too harsh!
What are your thoughts?
James

Charles Carroll

2023-07-12 01:14:04 UTC

Permalink

Hi James and Carl,

I am sorry but I have no self restraint.

Warmest regards as always,
Charles

“Using initiative is a knack which is not encouraged by civilisation, and it often seems that English oarsmen and athletes lack the capacity for taking charge of themselves that they would have if brought up in less civilised surroundings. The nation is too much nursed when young, too well looked after by schoolmasters, too closely shepherded through life by police and officials, and too well guarded by the law of the land; and their young oarsmen are never allowed out without their coach. All this leads to a spirit of follow my leader, the cherishing of “parrot-cries” instead of principles and the worship of the “orthodox” for fear of appearing to be egregious.

“I come from Australia, a new country where people have to fend for themselves a good deal and consequently possess a larger share of the spirit of self-reliance that prompts one to take a short cut without hesitation where it leads directly to one’s objective. In coaching Jesus College crews at Cambridge, I struck out on the independent line of concentrating on blade-work as a more direct means of acquiring the art of rowing than schooling the body to posture in the traditional style.

“The true view of rowing is that it consists in the cultivation of the sense of touch, timing, control, and balance, which is the secret of success in every form of athletics; and the main principle is: There must be no effort; if you can’t do it easily you can’t do it at all. I had been educated to this general athletic sense by my school-day sports of cricket, football, swimming, and gymnastics, as well as rowing. I rowed in the ’Varsity Eight as a freshman when I came to Cambridge in 1881. And I rowed four years in the Cambridge crew.”

-Steve Fairbairn, “Rowing Notes” Preface to First Edition 1926